A message to all DJ's and lovers of music alike

General Discussion about the PsyTrance scene, way of life, etc.
19 posts Page 1 of 1
Merkaba2012
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:16 am


Compressing music should be a crime! MP3's shouldn't exist now we are rocking terabyte hard drives!

Listen up DJ's > be kind to your dancefloor, you have a responsibility to deliver the best sound possible. Play WAV or AIFF or a lossless format. ...and the universe will love you for it!

♥ ♥ ♥ ((( ♥ ))) ♥ ♥ ♥

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3_iOHHQvPg
herbsandspices
Posts: 794
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:21 pm


I don't know, to be honest I cant tell the difference between a high quality MP3 and a lossless format even on a good club system.
synthz
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:01 pm


Yeah ive found 320s do the job. Usually 2 JBL eon 15s and an 18 sub. But yeah, if you can, use wav/flac/aiff.
Merkaba2012
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:16 am


Regardless of weather or not you can hear the difference is irrelevant... its like reading a story without the beginning and end, or photo copying a Alex Grey artwork in lower resolution. Music is art. Compression = data loss. Its the vibe of the thing :mrgreen: :alien:
herbsandspices
Posts: 794
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:21 pm


So it's not cool to hang an Alex Grey print to be apperciated even when indistinguishable from the original and is labeled a print?

I mean I'm kinda with you on playing lossless when possible, but it's why that I'm interested in.

If one format is, indistinguishable from another to the senses, isn't it just snobbery that deliniates the two?
tract
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2002 6:45 pm


I cry (out) for the pure forms :(

LAME v3.98.4 -V0
flurohero
Posts: 2296
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 9:12 pm


umm? i don't think the cd format is really standing up in the durability stakes despite being whatever bandwidth[mould,delamination,often very lame quality media].kind of a pain thinking it's all going to have to ripped anyway.
sure it's o.k. if you really dig that 'built in obselescence[10-15yr]'.


can you still get those 'real dj's only use vinyl' t-shirts?
solconnection
Posts: 1105
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 7:08 pm


Don't share your philosophy man. It's about the musical content not the bit rate, do the words 'i love you' have less meaning if spoken over a beat up old nokia vs some fancy new smart phone with a higher fidelity speaker/microphone? The dude in the video is out to sell a product.

In blind tests it is very rare even audiophiles can tell the diff between 320 mp3 and a wav, let alone a dancefloor full of inebriated hippies :) pitching a track up or down or setting key lock on or warping it in ableton is going to change the sonic characteristics far more than some high quality mp3 compression, so the use of wav comes down to some sort of misguided purism in my mind, better to be a purist about injecting soulful beautiful vibes in to your music or set imo.

this always makes me lol
http://consumerist.com/2008/03/do-coat- ... ables.html

Needless to say, after the blind folds came off and we saw what my brother did, we learned he was right...most of what manufactures have to say about their products is pure hype. It seems the more they charge, the more hyped it is.


have a nice day
-Dan
brainstorma
Posts: 3626
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:22 pm


you havnt been listening to Tony Andrews bitch and moan about sound quality have you

the day i go wav is the day beatport remove the stupid handling fee for buying wav files

DECRION DEE
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:27 pm


Lol that old video... still... he’s got a point most dj mixers are the big problem they output super-hot signal of digitally distorted rubbish.
Won’t mention the leading most popular one.. :roll:
Ritchie_Jay
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 11:28 am


DECRION DEE wrote :
Lol that old video... still... he’s got a point most dj mixers are the big problem they output super-hot signal of digitally distorted rubbish.
Won’t mention the leading most popular one.. :roll:


I'd have to agree. The minute diiference even with 320k MP3's and WAV is nothing compared maxing out a mixer. I see it all the time. I have no hesitation asking even the biggest acts what the fuck they think they are doing. :angry:

My message to performers is to learn how to structure your gain stages - it's not that hard.
herbsandspices
Posts: 794
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:21 pm


Actually Ritchie (or anyone for that matter) maybe you can help me out with that-

When I DJ off a laptop using Ableton I seem to get very little signal from the soundcard, and need to turn the gain up to max and occasionally even smash up the three eqs as well to get a volume in the top of the green. Am I doing something fundamentally wrong, should I somehow pre-amp? I mean it sounds OK to me and I have no complaints, but I do get the feeling that it shouldn't be this way- or do I need a new offboard soundcard?

Apologies for amateurish question.
Ritchie_Jay
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 11:28 am


herbsandspices wrote :
Actually Ritchie (or anyone for that matter) maybe you can help me out with that-

When I DJ off a laptop using Ableton I seem to get very little signal from the soundcard, and need to turn the gain up to max and occasionally even smash up the three eqs as well to get a volume in the top of the green. Am I doing something fundamentally wrong, should I somehow pre-amp? I mean it sounds OK to me and I have no complaints, but I do get the feeling that it shouldn't be this way- or do I need a new offboard soundcard?

Apologies for amateurish question.


What sound interface are you using?
herbsandspices
Posts: 794
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:21 pm


3.5m jack? Is that what you mean?
Ritchie_Jay
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 11:28 am


herbsandspices wrote :
3.5m jack? Is that what you mean?


By the sounds of it you are using the laptop's inbuilt sound card, and plugging a 3.5mm plug into the headphone port on the side of the laptop?
herbsandspices
Posts: 794
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:21 pm


Ahhh yep that would be it (braces to be told the obvious)...
Ritchie_Jay
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 11:28 am


herbsandspices wrote :
Ahhh yep that would be it (braces to be told the obvious)...


Well yeah - but the correct gain structure for this type of setup would be;


In Ableton:

Put a limter on the master (threshold set to -0.3db) only to catch occasional peak levels that create distortion, and set the master fader to 0db /Unity

The master fader should always be set to 0db so to give an optimal output level with no distortion from Ableton.

Set the level of all the tracks you're playing in Ableton to taste, and so when they combine together on the master bus, the limiter should engage only every now and then. i.e. you're aiming for a master bus signal level of 0db and the limiter will police the overs.

By using this approach you are sending out optimum level out of Ableton.

This scenario is valid in Ableton no matter what sound interface you use.


If using an onboard interface as you are, you need to turn the volume of the device up to maximum using the devices control panel. Mac and PC are similar here.


For the DJ Mixer;

First turn the channel input gain / trim at the top all the way down.

Set all the channel EQ's to 0db ie 12 o'clock.

Set the channel's vertical fader to unity / 0db position (there is usally a marking about 80% on up or if not marked turn all the way up)

Set the master output fader / pot to unity / 0db the same way.

The last step is to set the channel input gain / trim (usually at the very top of the channel), so you are getting a decent level on the Dj mixer (all green / occasional yellow on the mixer)


If you can't get this level following the entire list then your output from the computer is too low.


A decent sound interface will fix this, have better sound quality, better CPU performance, and much higher voltage output. A good one for you would be NATIVE INSTRUMENTS Traktor Audio 2 http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/ ... egory=1317

This device also has the benefit of 2 X Stereo outputs; One for MASTER and one for Cuing for example.


When setting up any mixer's structure it's all about unity. Whenever you turn a signal up it generates distortion and this goes for EQ levels too.


Another example is: If you were just playing a single CD on a DJ mixer. The correct structure is have the channel's vertical / line fader on 0db / Unity (Neither turning up signal or turning down at that point), the Master Output also at 0db / Unity (Neither turning up signal or turning down at that point) and then adjust the input gain / trim (where the signal comes in) to get the correct master level.

This means that the first port of call (the channel gain / trim) sets the final level. With every fader / eq after that set to 0db / unity the signal from there is never turned up or down, minimising the distortion created.

When you play a second CD, turn down all the channel input trims / gains to taste, and until you get the desired master level.


I see so often, channel trim / gain turned up (evident by the channel meter going into the red distortion zone) and then the master fader turned down to compensate. This scenario you end up getting the correct level, but what you are also getting is a distorted signal.


Finally, RED means distortion. Get RED meters anywhere in the signal and there's nothing you can do to correct it. The damage is already done.
DECRION DEE
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:27 pm


someone give this dude s beer!!!!

but thats still hard for some djs to work out.......

just do what i do , put gaff over the master and at just over half on the gains so it cant be run in to red!....... all good then!
herbsandspices
Posts: 794
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:21 pm


Yeah thanks Ritchie, is good. Much appreciated.
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