Are DJs musicians?

General Discussion about the PsyTrance scene, way of life, etc.
163 posts Page 1 of 7
Galactic Monkey
Posts: 1149
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:03 pm


Spawned off by the "is music powerless to express anything?" thread.

IMO yes, they are musicians, much like the conductor of the orchestra is a musician. I think to be a good DJ you need to have a solid understanding of music, maybe not in formal terms but in your own context for sure. Furthermore, I would also say that a good DJ is also a composer, need I explain why?

Discuss :D

EDIT: I am not a DJ.

 

Katsushiro
Posts: 2248
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:35 pm


Definatley not. And a comparison to a conductor of an orchestra is null.

A DJ knows what music is good. He presses play on a record player and mixes tracks together. People dance. The DJ gets fellated afterwards.

That is all.

 

phoney
Posts: 1279
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 4:46 pm


Katsushiro wrote :
Definatley not. And a comparison to a conductor of an orchestra is null.

A DJ knows what music is good. He presses play on a record player and mixes tracks together. People dance. The DJ gets fellated afterwards.

That is all.


How about the comparison to a drummer ?

There are only fixed number of predefined sounds that can come out of a drum kit. Its playing those sounds in a particular order & at a particular tempo that makes someone playing the drums a musician. The same can be said about someone playing records in a particular order / tempo.

Someone who only "mixes tracks together" and thats it aint much of a DJ.

 

sensient tim
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 5:42 pm


phoney wrote :
There are only fixed number of predefined sounds that can come out of a guitar. Its playing those sounds in a particular order & at a particular tempo that makes someone playing the guitar a musician. The same can be said about someone playing records in a particular order / tempo.

.


Huh? you can say that about any instrument....see ^^^^ nothin to do with dj'ing imo

 

Galactic Monkey
Posts: 1149
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:03 pm


phoney wrote :
Katsushiro wrote :
Definatley not. And a comparison to a conductor of an orchestra is null.

A DJ knows what music is good. He presses play on a record player and mixes tracks together. People dance. The DJ gets fellated afterwards.

That is all.


How about the comparison to a drummer ?

There are only fixed number of predefined sounds that can come out of a drum kit. Its playing those sounds in a particular order & at a particular tempo that makes someone playing the drums a musician. The same can be said about someone playing records in a particular order / tempo.

Someone who only "mixes tracks together" and thats it aint much of a DJ.


Yeah I get ya, tracks can be compared to various drum beats/rolls, good point!

 

Darkone
Posts: 680
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:02 pm


Katsushiro wrote :
Definatley not. And a comparison to a conductor of an orchestra is null.

A DJ knows what music is good. He presses play on a record player and mixes tracks together. People dance. The DJ gets fellated afterwards.

That is all.


Close but no cigar.

You forgot '1000 Euros Please'

 

Rev. Suchandsuch
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:47 pm


if the dj is good enough :D
not just mixing end of track to next track
but if the layering goes right... 8)

 

tripn
Posts: 6721
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2002 5:28 pm


ive never thought of dj's as musicians. the people who make the music which they play are the musicians. the dj is not creating any new music, only mixing other people's music together.

 

Katsushiro
Posts: 2248
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:35 pm


Darkone wrote :
Katsushiro wrote :
Definatley not. And a comparison to a conductor of an orchestra is null.

A DJ knows what music is good. He presses play on a record player and mixes tracks together. People dance. The DJ gets fellated afterwards.

That is all.


Close but no cigar.

You forgot '1000 Euros Please'


LOR

 

Katsushiro
Posts: 2248
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:35 pm


phoney wrote :
Katsushiro wrote :
Definatley not. And a comparison to a conductor of an orchestra is null.

A DJ knows what music is good. He presses play on a record player and mixes tracks together. People dance. The DJ gets fellated afterwards.

That is all.


How about the comparison to a drummer ?

There are only fixed number of predefined sounds that can come out of a drum kit. Its playing those sounds in a particular order & at a particular tempo that makes someone playing the drums a musician. The same can be said about someone playing records in a particular order / tempo.

Someone who only "mixes tracks together" and thats it aint much of a DJ.


Drummers arent musicians either. But more skill than a DJ.

 

phoney
Posts: 1279
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 4:46 pm


Wrong.

Here is the Macquarie dictionary definition of musician:

1. a person who makes music a profession, esp. as a performer of music.
2. any person, whether professional or not, skilled in music.

Now tell me the DJ in this video has no skill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMozR1O9nC0

 

simon
Posts: 2944
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2001 8:33 pm


Katsushiro wrote :

A DJ knows what music is good. He presses play on a record player and mixes tracks together. People dance. The DJ gets fellated afterwards..


i've been fucking ripped off.


I DEMAND MY AFTER SET BLOWJOBS AT RS5

 

Sunrunner
Posts: 1319
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 10:06 pm


hmmm.. interesting topic. i guess in this situation i would look at a dj as a composer, rather than a musician, though it's a pretty damn blurry line. a GOOD dj shits all over a crap producer - and i would any day rather see a good dj than a shit composer play live :) but that's not really answering the question.

i guess i would compare a dj to a the composers who just layer sounds together in something like protools. people who create 'soundscapes'. they're not really writing 'music' as such (or are they?). that depends totally on your definition of music though. they may add some effects and what not, which is what a dj can do too. essentially they're both doing the same thing. and the skill with which each does their 'thing' can vary greatly, as with anything.

are these people called musicians? yeah, they are. are they? that depends on your viewpoint i guess... if anyone has studied music in the academic world, you might see what sort of 'wank' passes as a musical performance - but that's just my opinion.

so yeah, i guess i see a dj as a type of musician.

Katsushiro wrote :
Drummers arent musicians either. But more skill than a DJ.


are you serious? what do you define as music then? music is a combination of many elements, one of which is usually rhythm. a (good) drummer can play a variety of rhythms and patterns all of which are music.

so do you consider an african drumming group not music? or a taiko group, they're not playing music either?

interested to know why you think someone who plays a rhythmic instrument is not a musician, when as far as i'm concerned rhythm is a pretty central part of what music is.

dwight.

p.s. nice thread, let's hope it doesn't turn into djs defending their right to be called 'musicians' and 'real musicians' slinging shit at the djs for being 'fakes'...

 

Cyberwlf
Posts: 4812
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 11:00 am


I see a DJ being like a composer. A good DJ will have an idea in mind of where he or she wants to take the listener/dancer, and will try and create a journey of sounds to produce that. A good DJ won't focus on whose tracks they are playing but what they are playing. And will aim to do a set which creates the kind of headspace they wish to create.

Like music in general, yes, people can gain different things from it. Some people for example will hear a psytrance set and hear it as just being dark, others may hear the same and hear as just being full on sound with random noises, and others hear it as psychedelic soundscapes. But it will generally have a particular effect on the crowd, and when a DJ who 'reads' the crowd, they effectively express something by the way they control how the crowd reacts to it, that includes playing something which is abrasive or offensive to some but done with a particular purpose in mind.

Turntablists are more musicians though as they effectively just 'sample' tracks as they mix them up in an live environment to such a degree that the individual tracks hold little value in their own right but the overall set becomes a new piece of music in itself. And considering electronic music has a large focus on sampling often, just because the medium used to compose it is Vinyl or CDs instead of say a laptop+synths, doesn't mean it's not a piece of music in its own right.

 

Katsushiro
Posts: 2248
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:35 pm


What a wank.

 

Sunrunner
Posts: 1319
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 10:06 pm


Katsushiro wrote :
What a wank.


okay... i was actually interested to hear your opinion on the whole rhythm thing :) i've heard people say it before.

 

Katsushiro
Posts: 2248
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:35 pm


Sunrunner wrote :
Katsushiro wrote :
What a wank.


okay... i was actually interested to hear your opinion on the whole rhythm thing :) i've heard people say it before.


Counting beats is one thing, playing them is another.

Playing them requires more skill than counting them.

Have you guys freeze dried your brains or something?

 

Sunrunner
Posts: 1319
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 10:06 pm


whatever :) that hasn't answered my questions at all, but it doesn't appear you're actually interested in discussing it, so that's cool.

dwight.

 

Cyberwlf
Posts: 4812
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 11:00 am


Sunrunner wrote :
whatever :) that hasn't answered my questions at all, but it doesn't appear you're actually interested in discussing it, so that's cool.

dwight.


It's because discussion involves an exchange of ideas, and a flexibility that perceived notions can potentially be rethought as new ideas are taken on, opening himself up by expressing his points would leave him vulnerable to exposing that his own ideas may not be as infallible as he would like them to come across as.

 

phoney
Posts: 1279
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 4:46 pm


phoney wrote :
Here is the Macquarie dictionary definition of musician:

1. a person who makes music a profession, esp. as a performer of music.
2. any person, whether professional or not, skilled in music.


Katsushiro, can you explain how a DJ doesn't fit into one of the above criteria ?

 

itchytriggerniggerfingers
Posts: 2288
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 9:39 pm


Cyberwlf wrote :
I see a DJ being like a composer.


Composing = creating. A dj plays music another person has created. They may be trying to create an atmosphere or journey, but that has diddly squat to do with understanding how the music was created.

That being said I see most electronic producers as composers not musicians since most don't have the slightest idea how to write their songs on sheet music, let alone music theory.

 

Cyberwlf
Posts: 4812
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 11:00 am


Re: Music theory/etc - I don't know. I think people get too caught up in the technical at times with music rather than focusing on the outcome. Why should it be the primary focus how a sound or composition came to be, should it not be the result, and what that result delivers. I'm not saying to dismiss technical accomplishments, but some of the worlds most dull shit has been some of the most technically proficient.
Last edited by Cyberwlf on Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 

Sunrunner
Posts: 1319
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 10:06 pm


itchytriggerniggerfingers wrote :
Cyberwlf wrote :
That being said I see most electronic producers as composers not musicians since most don't have the slightest idea how to write their songs on sheet music, let alone music theory.


i agree with this also - not every electronic producer has music knowledge. some do, however :)

 

Orphea
Posts: 295
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 2:41 pm


Katsushiro wrote :
Sunrunner wrote :
Katsushiro wrote :
What a wank.


okay... i was actually interested to hear your opinion on the whole rhythm thing :) i've heard people say it before.


Counting beats is one thing, playing them is another.

Playing them requires more skill than counting them.

Have you guys freeze dried your brains or something?



Do you play any instruments Katsushiro?

I'm interested to know what information you have in regards to practicing, performing and the theory behind music and/or electronic music production?

Also do you go to parties and listen/dance to Dj's?

 

Katsushiro
Posts: 2248
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:35 pm


Orphea wrote :

Do you play any instruments Katsushiro?


Yup. Guitar, synthesisers, piano, programming, bass, drums, mandolin.

I'm interested to know what information you have in regards to practicing, performing and the theory behind music and/or electronic music production?


Got a few weeks? Ill talk your arse off.

Also do you go to parties and listen/dance to Dj's?


Since 1995.
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