Europeans: An endangered species.

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infinafta
Posts: 4100
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:19 pm


Since people are actually debating stuff around here all of a sudden again, so let me throw this at you.

What are people's general feelings on the European ethnicities basically wiping themselves out, taking a large chunk of Western civilisation with them?

Do people give a fuck? Happy that Gaia will be pleased at the reduced burden of our species (with the cultures that are still actually reproducing being so eco-friendly and all)? Lament the relegation of Europe to the history books,kind of like the Roman Empire? See a conspiracy perhaps?

A little dry, i know... just think of all the unprotected sex that these people should be
having but aren't, to spice things up.
Unsustainable Levels of Overpopulationism [Mark Steyn]
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/? ... k0MmY5ZTY=

My book, whose title escapes me, comes out in paperback this week, and after a year and a half on the promotional trail I occasionally wonder if perhaps my message isn't a little over-familiar. But then I read something like this (to which Tim Blair responds with his customary pith). Alison Bashford is worried:

The world population is 6.6 billion. This far exceeds early 20th-century predictions that it would reach about 3.9 billion by 2009. And yet overpopulation barely registers now as a public issue.


Well, maybe that's because, of the G8 nations, three - Russia, Japan, Germany - are already in net population decline, and Italy's about to join them. Maybe that's because 17 European nations are already at or below what demographers call "lowest-low" fertility (1.3 children per couple) - a point from which no society in human history has ever recovered. Maybe that's because in its most recent analysis the U.N. Population Division reported:

The indigenous populations of most countries in the rich world will either stagnate or decline…. The 2006 population revision predicts the steady depopulation of vast areas of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union as a result of high levels of emigration and birth rates running persistently below replacement levels. Bulgaria’s population will fall by 35 per cent by 2050; Ukraine’s will plummet by 33 per cent, Russia’s by one quarter, whilst Britain’s population will rise from 60 million to approaching 69 million by 2050—almost entirely because of immigration. The expected global upheaval is without parallel in human history.


How can a supposedly respected historian and The Sydney Morning Herald publish a piece on the "overpopulation" problem and not know any of the above?

Professor Bashford provides an answer when she looks back to her overpopulationist heroes - chaps like John D Rockefeller III and the Australian statistician Sir George Knibbs — and then starts twittering away about how unfortunate it was the great overpopulation movement got detoured into beastly areas like eugenics. But, if you're going to be an overpopulation scaremonger like Professor Bashford, some sort of "ethnic profiling" surely goes with the territory — because the "global" crisis is not evenly distributed. Certain countries — Afghanistan, Yemen and whatnot — have 6, 7, 8 kids per couple — while Spaniards have a perfectly inverted family tree: four grandparents have two kids and one grandchild. It's not possible for Europeans to depopulate any faster than they're doing, but it's certainly not unreasonable for your average Yemeni mom to cut down a wee bit. Nevertheless, Professor Bashford can't bring herself even to mention this discrepancy, lest she sound as culturally judgmental as poor old Rockefeller in his enthusiasm for targeted Puerto Rican population control.

The good news is the Spaniards, Italians, Romanians, Ukrainians et al are committing societal suicide. The bad news is there may not be enough of them left to man the European branch of the Overpopulation Crisis Center.



This Rockefeller business is all a bit cute too:


(from the Bashford article Stein is refering to, link:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/environment/ ... 95790.html )
When John D. Rockefeller III called together world experts to his Population Council in 1952, his team still thought of the problem as Knibbs did: catastrophic, urgent, global. "Time is running out - there will be a crisis in a few generations," Rockefeller wrote.

Reading through the Population Council's deliberations I'm struck by how astutely his scientists grasped reproduction and energy consumption as twin sides of the coin. On the one hand, they discussed (and funded) the development of a cheap and effective hormonal contraceptive. On the other, they worked on solar energy technology.

"If a really efficient mode of utilising solar energy could be developed, then the energy aspect of food requirements would completely vanish as a problem," offered a key Rockefeller adviser. His scientists swapped ideas about wind power, thermal energy, atomic energy - all as desirable alternatives to fossil fuels.

[..]

. The Rockefeller Foundation also developed solar, wind and thermal energy technology, and what has turned out to be a pretty good contraceptive.


Proof right there that Global Warmenism is just part of the conspiracy to install the New World Order. Stinking fucking hippie banker cunts.

 

tripn
Posts: 6721
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2002 5:28 pm


robots are the solution!! make them do all the hard yakka and then everyone can just be employed making and fixing robots. :P

but anyway, one thing i can see happening is that these low birthrate countries will probably need to get rid of their welfare programs and old age pensions otherwise the ratio of old people to young tax paying workers will become too unsustainable and cause the state to collapse at some point.

 

venatrix
Posts: 2795
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:43 pm


Alison Bashford is a fucking legend and total genius. You should listen closely to everything she says because she knows her fucking shit. I might actually read the article and get me learned...

 

tripn
Posts: 6721
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2002 5:28 pm


SubStance wrote :

Take 10 million odd super paying workers in australia and add up the daily interest banks can make off lending out those super contributions to the world.......... Kinda makes sence for Mr Rockafella to set him self up that way ;)


well its true that if super wasnt compulsory there would be a hell of a lot less speculative money being herded into the stockmarkets. the big wigs of the financial world benefit from this because they know how to manipulate it and profit from often manufactured peaks and dips, and the government benefits as it gets to tax you twice. yes, no wonder its compulsory. :)

 

infinafta
Posts: 4100
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:19 pm


venatrix wrote :
Alison Bashford is a fucking legend and total genius. You should listen closely to everything she says because she knows her fucking shit. I might actually read the article and get me learned...


Then why is her article so completely wrong and misguided ??

 

infinafta
Posts: 4100
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:19 pm


SubStance wrote :
Superanuation is more important then ever now. If old age population is growing and youth shrinking then super is the only way we will survive. Now isn't funny that super is compulsary.


Yes, this whole governmentsd trying to force our survival thing is such a conspiracy. How funny. My god, somehow in power is actually planning ahead for the welfare of our country. Revolt!

Makes me want to stop paying taxes. No wait, thats just the ghost of crazy Atreyu speaking through me.


Take 10 million odd super paying workers in australia and add up the daily interest banks can make off lending out those super contributions to the world.......... Kinda makes sence for Mr Rockafella to set him self up that
way ;)



Mr Rockafeller was a dirty fucking hippie who had the world's interest on his mind. Good on him for making a tidy profit in the process.

As for global warming, thats really not relevant to this thread.

This thread is about under population of the Western world and the societal collapse it will lead to in parts of it.

 

infinafta
Posts: 4100
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:19 pm


tripn wrote :
robots are the solution!! make them do all the hard yakka and then everyone can just be employed making and fixing robots. :P



Well, lets see how that works for the South Koreans. As I said before, robots don't pay taxed.

I'd prefer a large slave underclass - large pool of cheap labour is a much more effective way to keep the economy afloat. Now why has nobody thought of that?


but anyway, one thing i can see happening is that these low birthrate countries will probably need to get rid of their welfare programs and old age pensions otherwise the ratio of old people to young tax paying workers will become too unsustainable and cause the state to collapse at some point.


Why, very good! Someone is thinking for once.

Social unrest -> civil war -> secession -> collapse -> decimation

-> Rebirth beneath the new Fuhrer/Emperor/Tzar/Caliph/Supercomputer -> Onward to rule and conquer!

Fun times. Just watch.

 

ATREYU
Posts: 1190
Joined: Thu May 09, 2002 2:07 pm


Who cares. We are all human.

 

SubStance
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:10 pm


I've ALWAYS been a global warming sceptic.... Not that its not happening i just think that its being used as more fear for profit leverage.

Superanuation is more important then ever now. If old age population is growing and youth shrinking then super is the only way we will survive. Now isn't funny that super is compulsary.

Take 10 million odd super paying workers in australia and add up the daily interest banks can make off lending out those super contributions to the world.......... Kinda makes sence for Mr Rockafella to set him self up that way ;)

 

tripn
Posts: 6721
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2002 5:28 pm


ATREYU wrote :
Who cares. We are all human.


unfortunately the humans that are breeding the most have some pretty horrible ideologies which they are pretty keen to implement the world over.

but lets just pretend for a minute that that wasnt the case. YOU of all people should at least be concerned about the relatively open and free western civilisations with their welfare state social programs which you value so dearly collapsing upon themselves.

this is just taking into account that people arent having kids. try and imagine the scale of the problem when you include the enourmous amount of national debt that a lot of western countries have. how is that debt going to be serviced let alone paid back when the governments dont even have enough money for social programs.

 

tripn
Posts: 6721
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2002 5:28 pm


infinafta wrote :
tripn wrote :
robots are the solution!! make them do all the hard yakka and then everyone can just be employed making and fixing robots. :P



Well, lets see how that works for the South Koreans. As I said before, robots don't pay taxed.

I'd prefer a large slave underclass - large pool of cheap labour is a much more effective way to keep the economy afloat. Now why has nobody thought of that?


robots dont pay taxes but they increase productivity immensely and will work around the clock for 24 hours straight for no wages, no breaks, no health benefits and no overtime (sounds like a john howard wet dream). they also wont need pensions, medicare, centrelink, etc. is that similar to the large slave underclass you had in mind?

whats that about the south koreans btw?

 

infinafta
Posts: 4100
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:19 pm


tripn wrote :
infinafta wrote :
tripn wrote :
robots are the solution!! make them do all the hard yakka and then everyone can just be employed making and fixing robots. :P



Well, lets see how that works for the South Koreans. As I said before, robots don't pay taxed.

I'd prefer a large slave underclass - large pool of cheap labour is a much more effective way to keep the economy afloat. Now why has nobody thought of that?


robots dont pay taxes but they increase productivity immensely and will work around the clock for 24 hours straight for no wages, no breaks, no health benefits and no overtime (sounds like a john howard wet dream). they also wont need pensions, medicare, centrelink, etc. is that similar to the large slave underclass you had in mind?

whats that about the south koreans btw?


http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/25518/113/
South Korea wants to place a robot in every home
Trendwatch
By Humphrey Cheung
Tuesday, April 04, 2006 04:13

Robots could become as common as televisions in the coming decade for South Koreans. Faced with an aging population and the rising cost of skilled labor, the South Korean government is funding research into robots that could perform more menial jobs like guiding customers or doing security patrols. South Korea's Ministry of Information and Communication (MIC), the same agency that spearheaded the country's successful broadband initiative, is leading the charge with their IT839 strategy.

In the United States, some people have become used to the sight of iRobot's Roomba robotic vacuum cleaner or its bigger brother, the Scooba robot floor scrubber. While certainly impressive, South Korea wants robots that can do much more. In particular, the MIC is aiming for networked robots that can transmit images and sound through the Internet. In addition, these robots are expected to relay messages from children to their parents or even teach English.
[..]

The MIC would like robots to quickly appear in households and if government officials have their way, this could happen in just a few years. In a recent interview with the New York Times, Oh Sang Rok, the manager of the MIC's intelligent service robot project, said, "My personal goal is to put a robot in every home by 2010."



http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl ... 14/0415211
"South Korea officials today said they hope to build two robot theme parks for $1.6 billion by 2013. The parks will feature a number of attractions that let visitors interact with robots and test new products. "The two cities will be developed as meccas for the country's robot industry, while having amusement park areas, exhibition halls and stadiums where robots can compete in various events," the ministry said. The theme parks are not a big surprise because South Korea loves its robots. Earlier this year the government of South Korea said it was drawing up a code of ethics to prevent human abuse of robots — and vice versa."



here's a great post on the whole issue that is saying robots are in fact the answer, although I think he gets Japan really wrong, because of the catastrophe that is their economy:

http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpag ... ec_id=3413
[quote]
Japan was the first important nation to go over the fertility-rate cliff, passing downward through replacement level—2.1 children per woman—in 1960, to a present 1.3. The actual population of Japan began to decline last year. The Japanese are falling into the demographic black hole ahead of the rest of us. This is a topic of endless worried discussion in Japan. The government there has tried to encourage women to have more children, so far without any noticeable effect. If you read much political commentary, you will be familiar with all the gloomy predictions about the impact of aging, graying populations on current economies and welfare systems.

However, if it is really the case that every other nation will face this issue in the coming decades, then the Japanese are, in a sense, ahead of the game. They may be dropping into a demographic black hole; but there are physicists who argue that falling into a black hole does not mean utter annihilation—that, in fact, you may pass right through the black hole and out into another place***. If that’s right, the Japanese will get to that place, and adjust to it, ahead of the rest of us.

What form will the adjustment take? There are all kinds of speculations. Longer working lives seem to be inevitable, with much less indulgence of the old. The word “oldâ€

 

infinafta
Posts: 4100
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:19 pm


tripn wrote :
ATREYU wrote :
Who cares. We are all human.


unfortunately the humans that are breeding the most have some pretty horrible ideologies which they are pretty keen to implement the world over.

but lets just pretend for a minute that that wasnt the case. YOU of all people should at least be concerned about the relatively open and free western civilisations with their welfare state social programs which you value so dearly collapsing upon themselves.

this is just taking into account that people arent having kids. try and imagine the scale of the problem when you include the enourmous amount of national debt that a lot of western countries have. how is that debt going to be serviced let alone paid back when the governments dont even have enough money for social programs.




ZOMG! You're trying to use logic and reason with.... Atreyu! LOR!

Atreyu doesn't care about millions of people dying in wars and the products of thousands of years of cultural evolution being wiped out.

All cultures are equal to Atreyu.

 

infinafta
Posts: 4100
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:19 pm


ATREYU wrote :
Who cares. We are all human.



You know, I'd really like to be able to be nice to you, but Jesus titty-fucking Chrysler you're a moron sometimes. Not to mention crazy. Not to mention can't fucking read.

"Genocide! Societal breakdown! Civil War! Thousands of year of cultural evolution wiped out!"

"Who cares." Says Atreyu.


We are not talking about ethnicities dissappearing as much as cultures and ultimately civilisations. Remember the Dark Ages? Thats what happened one time when a civilisation was wiped out, you ignorant relativist dick.

You really need to be barcoded, chained up and put in a mine somewhere. 50 years hard labour might cure your crazy.

 

Llama
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:46 pm


Someones been reading to much stormfront.

 

atmospsypherica
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:50 am


infinafta wrote :

As for global warming, thats really not relevant to this thread.

This thread is about under population of the Western world and the societal collapse it will lead to in parts of it.
on the flip side in some over populated /third world etc parts of the world riots and social disorder is occurring because of World food cost increases and shortages. Being caused by Biodiesel , Australia's drought effecting wheat prices and supply, natural disasters and dare I say Global warming. (listening to radio abc recently , this was discussed).

China in my mind was awarded the games purely by politics. China's population -1,321,851,888 (July 2007 est.). The industrial boom it is having is because it's the West's way of controlling the world from having another World War. But at a price of prolonging the unpreventable, for the cheap labour it heavily pollutes itself. While now being able to sustain itself, sooner then later Mother Nature will catch up on it.

 

tripn
Posts: 6721
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2002 5:28 pm


atmospsypherica wrote :

on the flip side in some over populated /third world etc parts of the world riots and social disorder is occurring because of World food cost increases and shortages. Being caused by Biodiesel , Australia's drought effecting wheat prices and supply, natural disasters and dare I say Global warming. (listening to radio abc recently , this was discussed).



actually its mainly due to inflation, increased demand and governemt price controls. nothing to do with global warming or natural disasters. i heard just recently in egypt people started killing each other while lining up for government subsidized bread on a hot day. it became such a problem they ordered the army to start using its ovens to bake bread. The world price of rice has doubled since January. this mainly due to rising demand as asian countries become more affluent. also less land is available to grow crops now. the biofuel demand also plays a major part in that too.

 

infinafta
Posts: 4100
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:19 pm


tripn wrote :
atmospsypherica wrote :

on the flip side in some over populated /third world etc parts of the world riots and social disorder is occurring because of World food cost increases and shortages. Being caused by Biodiesel , Australia's drought effecting wheat prices and supply, natural disasters and dare I say Global warming. (listening to radio abc recently , this was discussed).



actually its mainly due to inflation, increased demand and governemt price controls. nothing to do with global warming or natural disasters. i heard just recently in egypt people started killing each other while lining up for government subsidized bread on a hot day. it became such a problem they ordered the army to start using its ovens to bake bread. The world price of rice has doubled since January. this mainly due to rising demand as asian countries become more affluent. also less land is available to grow crops now. the biofuel demand also plays a major part in that too.


lol, someone's been reading Stratfor or talking to a certain somehow who has , ay?

[quote]
Global Market Brief: Food Cost Crises
March 13, 2008 | 2140 GMT


Global wheat prices rose by 83 percent at the outset of 2008 compared to 2007 prices. Soybean prices hit an all-time high of $14.22 a bushel in February, while corn prices rose to a 12-year high of $5.25 a bushel. The U.S. Department of Agriculture reports that global grain reserves have plummeted to the lowest level since 1960. Prices likely will not fall for some time; as a matter of fact, the International Food Policy Research Institute predicts that global cereal prices will be 10 to 20 percent higher by 2015.

Rising food prices threaten to heighten conflict around the world and derail — at least temporarily — economic gains in many of the poorest developing nations. Poor countries that import a significant amount of food will suffer the most, especially if conflict is already brewing — as in Afghanistan, Sudan and Somalia. Increased prices and food shortages in those countries could lead to further distrust of the government and/or other ethnic groups and lead to radicalism. Poor nations in which citizens spend a significant proportion of their incomes on food will experience setbacks in economic development as domestic consumers divert spending away from consumption of local goods and services.

Farmers in industrialized nations that are net food exporters have the most to gain from the increase in food prices. Wealthier nations’ economies will face little hardship due to rising food prices alone, as food consumption makes up a very small proportion of industrialized nations’ total spending (though the rising prices will certainly decrease consumption of other goods and services and increase inflation).

The Causes

The recent rise in grain prices is mostly attributable to rising demand in large emerging economies — specifically, India and China — where the large middle class has an appetite for not only staple foods but meat and dairy products, which require land cultivation that offsets staple crop production. This, and the diversion of grain as animal feed, further increases the price of basic foodstuffs.

Increased demand for biofuels is no small factor in rising prices, either. The International Grain Council has calculated that 6.5 percent of grain grown in the 2007-2008 agricultural season will be used to produce biofuel. Barring a rapid backlash against biofuels worldwide, increasing percentages of grains will be used in biofuels throughout the next several years. The United Nations has claimed that this continued rate of development of the biofuel industry will leave 1.2 billion people hungry by the year 2025.

Supply constraints will exacerbate the problems resulting from increased demand. While new lands for agricultural production are being added in Russia and South America, agricultural lands in Asia and Europe are being diverted for residential and industrial uses. In China, desertification and development have led to a loss of more than 6 percent of the country’s arable land in the last decade, and this trend will not abate any time soon.

Furthermore, food is just one of the many commodities affected by soaring global energy prices. High fuel prices lead to increased transportation and distribution costs that get passed on to consumers. Furthermore, food production requires a lot of energy — particularly oil (natural gas prices are not as much of a factor). Fuel is needed for mechanized plowing, drilling, harvesting and other processes, and oil is converted into pesticides and other chemicals used in agriculture.

Efficiencies are always being gained and rising prices will spur innovation, but for the time being — and possibly for several decades — unless we see a second “green revolutionâ€

 

venatrix
Posts: 2795
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:43 pm


infinafta's channeling SamJack, haha awesome :)

 

infinafta
Posts: 4100
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:19 pm


Btw, natural disasters did have a play in the food price increases. The unusually harsh winter and subsequent snow cover in China really fucked with the food production. Global cooling is pretty fucked, you know.
For Australia the increased food prices are kind of good news - after all that rain we're having a HUGE bumper crop. Lots of money for our farmers who've had it rough for a while.

and specifically relating to what you (tripn) said about inflation etc and Egypt:

[quote]
Global Market Brief: The World Reacts to Inflation
Stratfor Today » April 3, 2008 | 2048 GMT
Global Market Brief - Stock

Inflation has been creeping up around the world in recent months, especially affecting the prices of food, energy and other essentials. The increased cost of essential goods is fueling social unrest.

To name a few instances, voters in Thailand, Taiwan and Malaysia all voted against the incumbent party in recent elections to show their displeasure with their governments’ failure to stop the erosion of living standards. Egypt’s bread crisis is hitting the poor hard, giving opposition groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood increasing political leverage. In Pakistan, a continuing flour crisis is reaching critical levels as the government tries to turn the population away from supporting insurgents. Saudi Arabia’s inflation recently hit 6.5 percent (after remaining virtually at zero for a decade), triggering public protests and boycotts and prompting 19 prominent clerics to post an unusual Internet statement in December 2007, warning of a crisis that would cause “theft, cheating, armed robbery and resentment between rich and poor.â€

 

infinafta
Posts: 4100
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:19 pm


Llama wrote :
Someones been reading to much stormfront.



Or maybe they've been reading too much me and getting it completely backwards.

You know. A bit like YOU.

Fuck those amateurs. They are just Atreyus without the tye-dye - crazy, weak as piss, mad as hell, and utterly lost in the shadows.

Or maybe they're more like Muslims without their Caliphate.

Ah, its all the same. Barcode the lot of yous.

 

Llama
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:46 pm


Lol@Barcodes the lot of you. Damn, the Anti-Christ has already come :twisted: I guess I'll move to Russia and live a peasant lifestyle so I can avoid your evil evil bardcoding scheme.

 

atmospsypherica
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:50 am


infinafta wrote :
[..]
Ah, its all the same. Barcode the lot of yous.
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?la ... d=10007056
Did you say you have Jewish ancestry ? ^ :shock:
maybe Atreyu is not that crazy afterall 8) :lol:

 

ATREYU
Posts: 1190
Joined: Thu May 09, 2002 2:07 pm


infinafta wrote :
ATREYU wrote :
Who cares. We are all human.



You know, I'd really like to be able to be nice to you, but Jesus titty-fucking Chrysler you're a moron sometimes. Not to mention crazy. Not to mention can't fucking read.

"Genocide! Societal breakdown! Civil War! Thousands of year of cultural evolution wiped out!"

"Who cares." Says Atreyu.


We are not talking about ethnicities dissappearing as much as cultures and ultimately civilisations. Remember the Dark Ages? Thats what happened one time when a civilisation was wiped out, you ignorant relativist dick.

You really need to be barcoded, chained up and put in a mine somewhere. 50 years hard labour might cure your crazy.


Well i'm sick of your fear mongering.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

 

FeralBrown
Posts: 5944
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:26 pm


Hey- this is actually a good thread! :shock:
We need to get Lance onto this...
STAT!

He'll sort out all this reasoning and semi-polite discussion once and for all!!!
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