Why Christianity Now Sucks Balls.

Off Topic discussion. Use this board to discuss general, non PsyTrance related topics.
227 posts Page 1 of 10
SamuraiJack
Posts: 10043
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:56 am


Walking past the church the other night on greek easter, and there's the padre or whatever doing his thing, swinging his censer like nobodies business and chanting. Now, people make a big deal about Tibetan Buddhist chanting primarily because they're idiots, and secondly because they either forgot, or never heard, that christians do the same damn thing and it's at LEAST as cool.

But that's the point. Modern christianity not only suffers from the usual problem of bastards going to church but being complete cunts. For example, how the hell anyone in the mafia thinks they're actually catholic I'll never know. Not only suffering from that, but they're tried to "Modernise" They're rituals. Talk about fucking stupid. If you've ever been lucky enough to hear REAL church choir, not some Harlem gospel choir shit, you'll be moved. One description of true choir I heard was "Angels dancing for your ears," Quite apt. When the priests chant a prayer in latin, swing some incense around and then the choir kicks in, I can totally see WHY christianity got so many converts. Unfortunately now they don't do any of that shit, and people don't care.

Of course. That's just my opinion.

 

dissectional
Posts: 4831
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2002 4:58 pm


Shut up.

 

infinafta
Posts: 4100
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:19 pm


One of my favourite albums to put on to relax to is "Chant" by The Benedictine Monks of Santo Domingo de Silos, "an obscure order of Benedictine monks from Spain".
this one:
http://www.bestprices.com/cgi-bin/vlink ... 823BT.html
Beautiful, uplifting, relaxing and inspirational.

Highly recommended.


I've read that the Lord’s Prayer was originally designed "as a devotional breathing exercise to be chanted on a single even breath", like a mantra. Don't know how reliable that information is though, as it is from an arguably fictional account.

 

the mad kiwi
Posts: 1559
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2003 7:05 pm


did you know that parachute records is the biggest indy record label in N.Z and also has the biggest festival here also (biggest drawing crowd)


sad really aint it ....

 

SamuraiJack
Posts: 10043
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:56 am


infinafta wrote :
I've read that the Lord’s Prayer was originally designed "as a devotional breathing exercise to be chanted on a single even breath", like a mantra. Don't know how reliable that information is though, as it is from an arguably fictional account.


I wouldn't be at all surprised. A lot of those early christians were incredibly switched on.

Oh yeah, Dissectional? YOU shut up. Take that hippy.

 

tripn
Posts: 6721
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2002 5:28 pm


ive got some songs of gregorian monk choirs (both male and female) singing and it sounds fucking great. very evoking of emotion.

whats even better is that i gave some of this to barry (third drop reflection) and he made a magnificent track out of it. some of you might have heard it at full moon madness or at the triptych gig but if not he will certainly be playing it again next time so pay attention.

 

infinafta
Posts: 4100
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:19 pm


look forward to hearing this Third Drop Reflection track!

I have another gregorian chant album that I hesitated to mention previously. Some people will cringe at the idea, but it is actually quite well done.

Masters of Chant - Gregorian
http://home.global.co.za/~jvd/gregorian/disc_a_moc1.htm
" It will be difficult to find another album in 2000 that is as beautifully arranged and as emotive as this album, combined with such exquisite singing. It is perfect in almost every way, and the idea of using a Gregorian choir is expertly realised. The vocals are some of the best you will ever hear from a choir, the arrangements are more layered than the arrangements of the original songs and the bonus of Sarah Brightman in the final song just makes this brilliant album even better. Every track has a new, strong rhythm and drumloop which was often lacking from the original versions. It is also very orchestral, with instruments such as piano, violin, string ensemble, organ, guitar and timpani, yet overall it is accessible and easily listenable. "

1. Brothers In Arms
5:09

Original Theme & Lyrics: Mark Knopfler / Originally Performed by: Dire Straits
2. Scarborough Fair
4:06

Original Theme & Lyrics: Traditional, Paul Simon, Art Garfunkel / Originally Performed by: Simon & Garfunkel
3. Tears In Heaven
4:43

Original Theme & Lyrics: Will Jennings, Eric Clapton / Originally Performed by: Eric Clapton
4. Still I'm Sad
4:02

Original Theme & Lyrics: Paul Samwell-Smith, Gim McCarthy / Originally Performed by: The Yardbirds
5. When A Man Loves AWoman
4:08

Original Theme & Lyrics: Calvin Lewis, Andrew Wright / Originally Performed by: Percy Sledge
6. Nothing Else Matters
5:30

Original Theme & Lyrics: James Hetfield, Lars Ulrich / Originally Performed by: Metallica
7. Fade To Grey
3:38

Original Theme & Lyrics: Midge Ure, Billy Currie, Christopher John Payne / Originally Performed by: Visage
8. Losing My Religion
5:01

Original Theme & Lyrics: William Berry, Peter Buck, Michael Mills, Michael Stipe / Originally Performed by: REM
9. Vienna
4:22

Original Theme & Lyrics: Midge Ure, Warren Cann, Billy Currie, Christopher Allen / Originally Performed by: Ultravox
10. The Sound Of Silence
3:35

Original Theme & Lyrics: Paul Simon / Originally Performed by: Simon & Garfunkel
11. Sebastian
3:05

Original Theme & Lyrics: Steve Harley / Originally Performed by: Steve Harley
12. Don't Give Up
5:22

Original Theme & Lyrics: Peter Gabriel / Originally Performed by: Peter Gabriel & Kate Bush



The Benedictine Monks album is more my thing, but the one above is more "accessible".. I lent to a friend who was going through personal dramas and he said "thank you, this album saved my soul". With a review like that, it more than deserves a listen, even though others may scream "cheese".

 

flurohero
Posts: 2296
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 9:12 pm


i like the new"be cool hardcore"style of christian youth indoctrination.if it took them 25years to be all black and "hardcore" itll only be fifteen till there s "psy trance "christian slithering reptile people.

also i read the new e.v.daniken book and am wondering why aliens would want to have sex with christians?theyre too pastey!all sorts would be hanging for a bit of alien with a bit more bestial enthusiasm than god botherers could put out.

 

dissectional
Posts: 4831
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2002 4:58 pm


SamuraiJack wrote :
Oh yeah, Dissectional? YOU shut up. Take that hippy.


":("

 

Dreamthief
Posts: 1556
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:00 pm


There's only one response, dude.

"You are."

 

infinafta
Posts: 4100
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:19 pm


SamuraiJack wrote :
infinafta wrote :
I've read that the Lord’s Prayer was originally designed "as a devotional breathing exercise to be chanted on a single even breath", like a mantra. Don't know how reliable that information is though, as it is from an arguably fictional account.


I wouldn't be at all surprised. A lot of those early christians were incredibly switched on.


you might find this full extract I quoted that from an interesting read..
its from "The Unending Quest" (Cassell & Co., Ltd., 1950), an autobiography by Paul Dukes, a British Intelligence agent, who was enrolled at the St. Petersburg Conservatoire when this exchange took place, between him and a man introduced to him as Prince Ozay, in 1913.
( from a fuller extract at)
http://www.gurdjieff-legacy.org/40articles/ozay.htm


A long talk ensued between the three men. From his gestures I gathered the Lion was telling the other two about my handling of the peasants. He turned to me after a while and asked me to repeat for the benefit of my host the lines of the Lord's Prayer in the way I had said them to my patients. I did so, rather self-consciously.

"You are English?" my host asked, speaking in English.

"Yes."

"Please say your Lord's Prayer again." He spoke English better than Russian, fairly correctly and with less accent.

I repeated the 'charm'.

"Very, very in-ter-est-ing," he said, staring at me so intently that I turned away. I caught the Lion's eye as he was settling down to chess with the man with the slanting eyes. He nodded at me with a look that seemed to indicate that I should pay particular attention to anything my host said.

We continued to talk in English, and the conversation, which I have good reason to remember, proceeded somewhat as follows. I reconstruct it as best I can from the notes I made at the time.

"Who taught you to say the Lord's Prayer like that?"

"Nobody. It just came into my head."

"Say the whole prayer through in the same manner."

I did so with one or two hesitations.

"You interrupted it. You said the first lines without stopping, but then you took a breath. That's wrong. This is the way your Lord's Prayer was meant to be said. Listen, and watch."

He folded his hands in his lap, fixed his eyes on me, and began to breathe in slowly and deeply, holding his breath a few moments, sitting motionless. It was very quiet in the room. Lev Lvovitch and the other man were engrossed in their game. They seemed already to belong to another world. I felt I was entering a new one.

A low, rich, musical bass note, about G2 below middle C, began to sound in the room, pure and dry amid the muffling hangings. My host had begun to chant the Lord's Prayer. The words came slowly and softly, the syllables flowing evenly and equidistant on the stream of the single note. The consonants just sufficed to articulate the words. From start to finish there was no stop, no hesitation, no halt for breath, no rise or fall in tone; it was one single sound, integral and self-contained, imparting to the prayer a meaning far deeper than the words themselves. The "amen"—pronounced, of course, "ah-meen"—trailed off into inaudibility in a way that merged the fading musical note with the ensuing silence. Chanted slowly in a single breath it seemed to last a very long time.

I was spellbound, and sat waiting in expectation. The sound of the chanted note had a singularly penetrating effect. I felt as if it had entered right into me. After a while he said: "You see, though the words have deep meaning they are not the most important thing. It is even doubtful whether the words have been transmitted to us accurately. Versions differ and nuances are introduced by translation. The most important thing about the prayer is that it is a convenient measure of a single trained breath."

I was puzzled. "What has breath to do with it?"

He replied at some length. I can transmit his words only imperfectly: The Lord's Prayer, he said, always referring to it as "your Lord's Prayer," was designed "as a devotional breathing exercise to be chanted on a single even breath." The same was true of other ancient prayers composed in the East in the distant past. Subtle advantages of far-reaching value, he said, are derived from the vibrations caused by correct incantation, polarized mentally by the words of the prayers. To intone them as they were intended to be intoned equal attention must be devoted to the three elements: the breath, the sound, and the words. In the modern religion of the West, which has degenerated into hopeless institutional formalism, the words are mistaken for the whole thing. "I have been in many churches in England and America," said my mysterious host, "and always heard the congregation mumble the Lord's Prayer all together in a scrambled grunt as if the mere muttered repetition of the formula were all that is required.(1) Have you read your scriptures?"

I told him the Bible had been rammed down my throat as a child, and consequently I had at times been on the verge of hating it.

"It is better to hate than to be indifferent," he replied. "It means you may come to love it when you understand it rightly."

"My father was a parson," I explained.

"Ah, you had a bad start. One does not expect divines to understand the Bible. They cling to the text. You will find that though Jesus dictated openly the words of his model prayer, when he wanted to show how they were to be uttered—the more important part of the matter—he took a few chosen disciples apart into a desert place and gave them special instruction. That was never recorded."

"Why not?"

"It cannot be recorded. It is an individual matter. However alike in appearance, we are all constructed more or less differently from each other. It is closely concerned with how a man breathes, and no two persons breathe exactly alike. Each disciple had first to be taught how to breathe, and then to find the note and the tone peculiar to him on which to intone with best effect."

"But doesn't nature teach us how to breathe?" I argued.

He replied to the effect that nature, of course, compels us to breathe, breathing is that by which we live, but we habitually perform the function in a limited way, without studying it, merely enough to keep soul and body together. Even singers and athletes only study breathing to suit their particular activities. "We also crawl on all fours, make noises, and perform many actions without special instruction, but to walk, to speak, to sing we have to learn. Yet nobody thinks of teaching children how to breathe—nobody, that is, outside certain limited circles. A technique attaches to everything before it can be done to best advantage, and this is especially true of the breath of life, though singularly few people seem to realize it."

I still argued that breathing was a natural function like digestion of the circulation of the blood, and that the more we left these things to take care of themselves the better. "Besides," I said, "prayer is not a physical thing, it is spiritual."

"Where is the borderline?" he retorted. "If prayer has nothing to do with physical functions why should all the great religions, including those founded on your Bible, insist on the association of prayer with fasting?"

I was stumped by that.

"So you see, prayer in its highest form would seem after all to have something to do with the digestion, and even with the quality and circulation of the blood."

This revolutionary thought needed some digestion itself. I switched the immediate issue. "Why need the prayer be intoned at all? Why can't it just be recited?"

For answer he bared a powerful chest and, taking my hand, said: "Put your finger there." I placed the tips of my fingers, as he indicated at the base of his chest. He drew a deep breath and began to intone on approximately the same note as before. I felt his entire torso vibrating, and the vibration was communicated to me rather like a mild electric current.

I withdrew my fingers and after a decent interval said: "You didn’t chant words. You chanted a single sound 'O' and you trailed off on an 'M'."

"Nothing misses you," he chuckled encouragingly. "This is an exercise with which to begin. Would you like to try? Chant the word 'home'.(2)"

I slipped my finger-tips inside my shirt, held them to my breastbone, and started chanting. But how different from his was the effect! I could only just feel a feeble vibration, while my incantation sounded like a broken growl.

"No matter," he said kindly. "I will show you how to practise, and in a few years if you are diligent you will get results."

"Years?" I exclaimed with dismay.

"Well, how many years does it take to become proficient in music? Prayer is an art like music, or painting, or acting, or sculpture, and at least as difficult. Some spend a lifetime acquiring it."

"A lifetime! What's the good of it at the end of a lifetime?"

"Young man," he said gravely, "much that I am telling you now you will fully understand only later. Remember this, that to pray is an art, and in art there is no final goal. There is always further to go. It is a voyage of unending discovery, and, as in all such voyages, what is gathered by the wayside is often as valuable as what is found at the destination."

The two men playing chess at the far side of the room had finished a game. Lev Lvovitch came over and said something to my host, who shook his head and answered curtly, as if he wanted to go on talking to me. The Lion turned to his companion and started another game.

"Please say the Lord's Prayer again." I begged.

Once more my host folded his hands, drew himself up, breathed in slowly and deeply. And again the deep note rolled out, bearing the familiar words in its course like a tide bearing ships slowly into harbour.

"May I try?" I ventured.

"Of course. You must learn."

But again my voice in comparison with his sounded thin and rasping, the tone wavered and broke. Trying to pronounce the words as slowly as he had done I was gasping halfway through.

"No matter," he said again. "Come back another evening and I will show you how to begin."

"Shall I too have to fast?" I asked.

He looked at me for a moment and burst out laughing. "Yes. You will. But not now!" He clapped his hands, a servant entered, he gave him an order, and the servant brought in a tray with an assortment of zakuski and drinks. My host filled two glasses. "Try my own concoction," he said, "much better than whisky. Here’s to ourselves!" He drained his glass in Russian fashion, and, not to be outdone, I followed suit. It was a good thing I was in practice—the stuff was potent. He jerked his thumb at the Lion and his companion. "Those old fogies have got stuck in their game. Let's have another."


(1)The crude and depressing manner in which the Lord's Prayer is customarily repeated in Western churches, either as a dismal intonation or a 'scrambled mumble', is typical of the factors inculcating the indifference, if not positive disrespect, for church forms which characterizes the younger generation of today who are looking for something real as a guide in life. In the foreword to his striking volume of illustrations to the Lord's Prayer, The Lord's Prayer in Black and White (Jonathan Cape), Arthur Wragge has this to say: '…the Lord's Prayer should be prayed alone. Jesus urged us to pray "to thy Father which is in secret," closing the doors of our rooms and surrendering ourselves to the poetry of prayer. Yet today this advice is almost forgotten, for usually this particular prayer of all prayers is said in a dull sing-song voice in company with a crowd of others, most of them either bored, conventional, or indifferent. The poetry of the prayer is destroyed by over much repetition so that it has almost ceased to mean anything.'

(2)The sound 'home' is practically the same as the sacred syllable 'Om'. I was to discover in practice that though it may well be true that the Lord's Prayer is the convenient measure of a single trained breath, this can only be regarded as an approximately rule, for the duration of a breath in chanting is affected by both volume and pitch. I have no doubt that, had our acquaintance not been cut short as will be described, Ozay would have introduced nuances into the principles he laid down for me. As it was, I was left in later years to work them out for myself, dovetailing them into the teachings of others which, often unexpectedly, proved to have a bearing upon them.

 

Dreamthief
Posts: 1556
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:00 pm


Nice one.

 

FeralBrown
Posts: 5944
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:26 pm


nice thread, SJ!
Don't have much to say, except I AGREE with your observations wholeheartedly...
Sorry... I'd love to get involved... and maybe I will...
but I'm still trying to practice moderation on this fukn site! :)
I think I'm doing pretty well, really...

and infinafta- once again, you're through with the goods! Thanks for the interesting links! :D

 

SamuraiJack
Posts: 10043
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:56 am


How sad it is that men such as that do not abound anymore, and are rarer than they ever were!

How depressing that I, of such feeble capacity should soar so high above the heads of the many!

 

PsySulph
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:35 pm


When the priests chant a prayer in latin, swing some incense around and then the choir kicks in, I can totally see WHY christianity got so many converts.
I fully and personally agree, having gone from being a young religious kid to someone who is no longer overly interested, but still takes his mum to church most Sundays (yes even some very confused mornings...)... if there's one thing that I could never stand it was the youth trying to modernise it all and make church cool, it got rid of the whole reverence thing once they tried making a rap out of everything. I was at least able to just sit back and get lost in my own thoughts while it all went on, now I have to be annoyed.

 

ortk_elfer
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:12 pm


Christianity is a joke. Theyre all going to hell. especially the new breed cool christians. I went to the hills christian centre a few years back. The biggest issue was getting more money for new spongy chairs.

 

Dreamthief
Posts: 1556
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:00 pm


Wow. Way to miss the point, hippy. Congratulations.

 

suspiria
Posts: 3406
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2002 5:48 pm


SamuraiJack wrote :
How sad it is that men such as that do not abound anymore, and are rarer than they ever were!

How depressing that I, of such feeble capacity should soar so high above the heads of the many!

but is it that they don't abound anymore or that their voice is quickly silenced?

 

SamuraiJack
Posts: 10043
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:56 am


suspiria wrote :
but is it that they don't abound anymore or that their voice is quickly silenced?


It's not so much as their voice is quickly silenced, so much as that it is ignored, and makes no impact sadly.
People would much rather listen to drunvalo melchecksondecks, that weird ramtha bitch, or anthony robbins.
True wisdom has never been widely appreciated, but now the problem is even worse. What holy men do you know in your community? Where are the sages that men travel long distances to bring fruit and gain wisdom?

 

suspiria
Posts: 3406
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2002 5:48 pm


i'm chatting to him via an australian based psytrance forum right now :wink:

 

tripn
Posts: 6721
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2002 5:28 pm


SamuraiJack wrote :

It's not so much as their voice is quickly silenced, so much as that it is ignored, and makes no impact sadly.
People would much rather listen to drunvalo melchecksondecks, that weird ramtha bitch, or anthony robbins.
True wisdom has never been widely appreciated, but now the problem is even worse. What holy men do you know in your community? Where are the sages that men travel long distances to bring fruit and gain wisdom?


obviously the majority of people dont want truth and refuse their share of it.
hasnt it always been this way? and how do you know that there are less holy men now than there was before? maybe you just havent heard about them or they lay low or serve humanity in disguise.

 

SamuraiJack
Posts: 10043
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:56 am


suspiria wrote :
i'm chatting to him via an australian based psytrance forum right now :wink:


Fuck that. BOLTS OF SILK!!!

 

suspiria
Posts: 3406
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2002 5:48 pm


tripn wrote :
obviously the majority of people dont want truth and refuse their share of it.
hasnt it always been this way? and how do you know that there are less holy men now than there was before? maybe you just havent heard about them or they lay low or serve humanity in disguise.

aren't they all busy planting tomatoes far, far beneath us "surfacers"? :wink:

 

SamuraiJack
Posts: 10043
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:56 am


tripn wrote :
obviously the majority of people dont want truth and refuse their share of it. hasnt it always been this way? and how do you know that there are less holy men now than there was before? maybe you just havent heard about them or they lay low or serve humanity in disguise.


No, no, it hasn't been as bad as this for a looooong time. I can find anything I've read in recorded history that suggests the same degree of the problem.

As far as I can see, YES there are less holy men. Have a look at your local priest. Quite probably a knob. Even though I've met some very together priests mind you.

 

tripn
Posts: 6721
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2002 5:28 pm


SamuraiJack wrote :
As far as I can see, YES there are less holy men. Have a look at your local priest. Quite probably a knob. Even though I've met some very together priests mind you.


we are talking about holymen/sages. not bible bashers.
227 posts Page 1 of 10

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests