worshiping god

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BasSCadeT
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:29 pm


I got wondering today why so many people worship God. Fundamental religious fanatics seem to have a personal relationship with the deity they resign to and this I have never been able to understand. Seems to me as nothing other than a guided altruistic comfort. Why is it though that God, one surely free of sin and vanity, would want to be worshiped like someone who craves authority? Surely a God who created us in his divine image would not want his dick to be sucked?

 

The Journey Man Project
Posts: 1195
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:46 pm


meh never got it either, even tho raised as a strict catholic, don;t wuestion, nothing wrong if people find or need comfort this way, just find your own faith or beliefs :wink:

 

tripn
Posts: 6721
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2002 5:28 pm


simple answer. its because people are taught, scared, guilted and bullied into worshipping him since they were kids. some people have managed to shake that programming and others have not. i think if the indoctrination cycle were to be cut off for just two generations religion would be a thing of the past.

 

spangk
Posts: 2816
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 4:09 am


I'd say it's loads more complicated than that. it's not just people who have been indoctrinated that worship a god, or believe in a god. I have no conclusion than that at this point. I'm reading a book called The God Part of The Brain atm, haven't read enough to be convinced of much yet. Except that everyones opinion and drive to learn and develop that view is very much subjective. I was convinced of that as much by the material i was reading as by personal character observations/ judgments of the author. Should be a good read. Not sure it'll be ground breaking but it was $10 less expensive than the book i wanted to buy which was on similar note but way more progressive.

 

FeralBrown
Posts: 5944
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:26 pm


tripn- I dunno... we don't pay that much attention to the cops, and we've been indoctrinated to view them in quite a similar way, really...

basscadet- to your last two questions, I (for the 2nd time this week) suggest www.enemies.com - from a "Christian" (or monotheistic) perspective, at least, tripn is partially right. I personally think (take this as metaphorically or literally as you see fit) that the "God" that is revered and fought over is not the true "God"... It is the demiurge, an anomaly born of a purer, greater, all-encompassing "entity" (for want of a better word), which thrusts it's (demiurge's) blind force on its realm, not through malice, but through ignorance to anything higher than Itself...
This obviously only paints a fraction of the picture, but you seem smart enough to work with that "glimpse"...

Now, the reason, summed up as briefly as possible, is because of "inexplicable circumstances"... not just "freak-of-nature" type inexplicable, but also what I suppose I'd have to basically call "karmic inexplicable".

Once, when *someone* was carrying on about the irrationality of a belief/faith in a God, I pulled out the "Principles of the First Cause"... he insulted me and carried on a little, but it's as irrefutable an argument as it's antithesis...
[quote]The first cause argument (or “cosmological argumentâ€
Last edited by FeralBrown on Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

 

Cyberwlf
Posts: 4812
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 11:00 am


There's a quote I used for religion not so long back on here. I said if one was to strike an analogy, one could compare religion to the public service system, sure it was setup for the good of the masses but it'll take more than a miracle to get them to fix it.

Religions foundations helped to provide order and guidance. It has been said that ancient civilisations sometimes introduced religion as a mechanism of controlling people. What it turned into became a further mechanism that people used to divide and conquer. It became reason when people were searching for one, and it became reason when people needed to justify one.

Religion provides answers, it provides community and a sense of belonging, and it can provides a sense of relatedness to what it preaches. Concepts that are bigger than the average mind may find easy to comprehend become tidily explained when one has faith in something they believe is bigger/greater than them.

Religion is also competitive, with all three primary religions offering their own views on what will bring divinity and which god is the right one.

But as I started this post with I will conclude it by saying my belief that religion is a flawed system made to serve the public, broken, but shows no signs of a fix coming any time soon!

 

FeralBrown
Posts: 5944
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:26 pm


I dunno if anyone else gets this, but "religion" is not the same as "worshipping a God".
:idea:

 

BasSCadeT
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:29 pm


I was talking to a lad at work today about his beliefs. He is a Jehovah's Witness. There was a lot of stuff we agreed upon. It's funny the difference of opinion you get from these people when you approach them rather than the usual breakfast bible session rudely confronting your front door. I think spirituality is a fine line with a broad spectrum. I'm not religious but am constantly seeking answers to my questions, which lately have been leaning towards spirituality. It's hard to talk to people with concrete views about something which is so intangible, something that we can't sense but know in our guts is there. It's also hard when these concrete views vary from different schools of thought and are demographically culture-dependent, not to mention sculpted by religious leaders for corporate gain...what next? Multinational church franchises? Bank loans for tickets to heaven? As ridiculous as this sounds, it still wouldn't surprise me...most people believe anything you shove in front of their nose.

 

The Journey Man Project
Posts: 1195
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:46 pm


Religion to me is just a means for people who believe so little in themselves they need some false sense of comfort to get them through each day and give them a reason to live so when they die they either come back again as something better or worse or they go to heaven or hell or whatever.


I believe wholly in myself and gave up the faith that I wasa taught to beleive in because of this.

I enjoy reading up on all kinds of religion because it ends up creating what soem call "culture" but most the time it is just people telling other people how to live!

 

BasSCadeT
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:29 pm


The Journey Man Project wrote :
Religion to me is just a means for people who believe so little in themselves they need some false sense of comfort to get them through each day and give them a reason to live so when they die they either come back again as something better or worse or they go to heaven or hell or whatever.


I believe wholly in myself and gave up the faith that I wasa taught to beleive in because of this.

I enjoy reading up on all kinds of religion because it ends up creating what soem call "culture" but most the time it is just people telling other people how to live!


I'd have to respectfully disagree with you there mate. I used to share your views on religion, nothing but a means to control the masses. I don't disagree that that is its main purpose today. I believe in God, whatever the fuck it is, not because I've been tricked or brainwashed, not because I'm scared of the possibility of its falseness, but because an unexplainable urge in me has guided me to the answers for my questions. We can only experience 3 dimensions. We are only living a fraction of our capabilities. We are merely waiting on the earth until it's our time to transcend. And for the record, I'm not a hippie, I'm a QLD bogan.

 

BasSCadeT
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:29 pm


FeralBrown wrote :
I dunno if anyone else gets this, but "religion" is not the same as "worshipping a God".
:idea:


the first thing that comes into my mind when "worshiping god" is said is sacrifices "given" in offer to an entity. It is a tradition which was around in Pagan times and still is around to this day - but that's secret brotherhood business! What's the fascination with trying to impress the guy? If you kept sweetening me up I'd be wondering what the fuck you were up to.

 

ATREYU
Posts: 1190
Joined: Thu May 09, 2002 2:07 pm


I see the worship of (the One) God as about paying respect to life itself.

People's definition of God varies- But what i think we are all drawn to in some way is an awe of life itself.

The sheer grandness, intelligence and beauty of creation is unfathomable and worthy of our respect.

 

Cyberwlf
Posts: 4812
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 11:00 am


FB - Religion being the path that most follow in their belief in god, thus my post. But yeah as others here show people can carve their own path which fit their own belief systems too.

Animism based Paganism although not popular these days is an interesting one in terms of belief systems as it's actually a worship of life itself so was not really abstracted beyond the world around us. So ignoring any kinds of dedications/sacrifices the religion may have had it focused what was in the world here and now rather than what I consider the absurd activity of basing your life around what will happen to you when you're dead.

Belief systems though in my opinion tend to limit people where their faith dis empowers them in their own mind from what they think is possible. I am aware some faith does preach to be aware and do not fear your own greatness, but there is practice and there is preaching.

I also strongly disagree with any idea that one should await to ascension because it gives this life no meaning or reason, which as I mentioned above in this post means a persons life is being based around when they are dead. What happens if you were wrong and there is no after life? As the saying goes, you only live once, so don't fear the reaper, embrace him as a reason to make the most of life now! ;)

 

BasSCadeT
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:29 pm


life after death is just a drop in the spiritual ocean. people take comfort in many different forms, just because the afterlife is not your cup of tea there's no reason to scrutinise it, especially armed with a lack of knowledge. Sure, live for today. But is that all you want in life? to live for today? don't you seek a greater truth or meaning? Or have you given up because it's too hard?

 

Cyberwlf
Posts: 4812
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 11:00 am


Heh. Given up? Funny. No, I just believe that if you consume yourself with looking for answers then you better learn the questions first. And I thought this is a discussion about faith/god, one you created, did you not want the subject and its related matter scrutinised or were you just after nods and agreements and would prefer no real discourse on the subject? I personally think any belief system worth its weight in salt should at least be able to stand itself upto questioning.

I do not dismiss beliefs around afterlife, but I do dismiss that of neglecting this one.

 

ATREYU
Posts: 1190
Joined: Thu May 09, 2002 2:07 pm


You sound like you'd like some of Osho's stuff Cybes.

Heres a gander

-OSHO: "God is not a Solution - but a Problem"
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=hhjOnYbKJJw

+OSHO: "Anybody who gives you a belief system is your enemy."
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=PBEIeRSLb ... re=related
( i know i've posted this b4, but it is very interesting).

"Consolation is opium".

 

BasSCadeT
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:29 pm


Cyberwlf wrote :
Heh. Given up? Funny. No, I just believe that if you consume yourself with looking for answers then you better learn the questions first.


It's funny how amazingly simple the answers are when you have the right questions to ask. These questions come from within us, not googled on the net.

Cyberwlf wrote :
And I thought this is a discussion about faith/god, one you created, did you not want the subject and its related matter scrutinised or were you just after nods and agreements


I actually prefer it when people disagree as it helps me to question my own beliefs, something which I frequently do. So thanks for your input mate, didn't want you to get your knickers in a twist but people seem to get edgy and defensive when you don't agree with them. We're not going to come up with an answer on a psytrance forum, I'm merely exposing you to the possibility of being wrong.

Cyberwlf wrote :
and would prefer no real discourse on the subject? I personally think any belief system worth its weight in salt should at least be able to stand itself upto questioning.


Ask away, Eddie. I'm listening.

Cyberwlf wrote :
I do not dismiss beliefs around afterlife, but I do dismiss that of neglecting this one.


When did I ever mention neglecting this life? If you're going to disagree with me maybe you should read my previous posts and respond to something i'm actually talking about, not sliding through with your opinions on an unrelated tangent... just a thought.

 

The Journey Man Project
Posts: 1195
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:46 pm


all in all I think religion and faith is personla.

I believe in a greater being, just not in something that has to have a name as such or needs to be worshipped, it just exits and is higher than we are in it's level of existence.

And I"m in no hurry to get to that level either, I"m just ahppy with the way thigns are and with being where I"m at :wink:

 

infinafta
Posts: 4100
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:19 pm


 

Cyberwlf
Posts: 4812
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 11:00 am


BassCadeT, I was actually responding to your post, you said:
We are merely waiting on the earth until it's our time to transcend.

It was that line I took issue with, thus not dismissing your personal beliefs on transcending but definitely disagreeing that we are 'merely waiting' here on Earth till any theoretical after life kicks in.

Also to phrase as a question what I posted earlier, if it turns out that this life is all we have and once we are dead that's it how would you have felt looking back on your life and the decisions you made knowing there will be no second run to do what you missed out on the first time?

Infinata - Thanks for the clip, quality cracker material! :P

 

The Journey Man Project
Posts: 1195
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:46 pm


Clip = hilariousy shit music.

Aye think you are about the same leve as my Mr Wlf :wink:

I mean seriously, why the fuck don't we all just get out there and try and learn and experience as much as piossible instead of leading sheltered lives controlled by a faith or god that only exits because of man's teachings?

I think it was Terry Pratchett in one of those Discworld novels who hit the nail on the head when one the gods from those books died or dissapeared because people just simply stopped believing in him.

To follow a way of life that is dictated to you by other humans is just ridiculous, because I bet if K Rudd or some poli got up and tried to do the same thing, you would be out on the streets in a fury!

anyway I'll cop more flack for this one no doubt, I just feel sorry for all the sheep.

I have always felt so sorry for my mum raised y nuns in a boarding school in the 50's and 60's and now she cannot see out of her little bubble at all, to the point of making my Dad sleep in a serpeatre room for a motnh for reading a book on the possibility of life being out ther in the universe somewhere, and again when he tried to convince her that we have come from the apes, and not from Adma and Eve.

 

The Journey Man Project
Posts: 1195
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:46 pm


Not ot mention me being banned from family gatherings and their house for 3 years because I lived with my girlfriend, and she was so concerned what the local priest and her church friends might think that her own sons happiness didn't even come into the equasion.

Religion has so much to answer for, it is ridiculous!

 

Cyberwlf
Posts: 4812
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 11:00 am


In London I spent a part of my time working with a devout Christian. The way she was raised, but more to the point the way she was raising her children due to her belief system was almost hard to comprehend/believe. And yeah trying to discuss much of it with her never got anywhere generally, but I did surprise her with a few facts about the real world around us that she had been unaware of before but it had no influence on her beliefs.

 

The Journey Man Project
Posts: 1195
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:46 pm


Yeah it can be pretty crazy, I'm pretty much considered an outcast in my family for not dating white catholic chica, as well as no longer being a dedicated catholic.

Funny thing is i never bring these things up, but I just go home to visit my Mum and the first thing she says is usually somethig along the lines of "I'm always so dissapointed in you for giving up your god". I'm like "Nice to see you again to Ma".

I always believed that family came first, no matter what, but I've found in many catholic families it is "god" first, priest second and family last.

I also got suspended for a month from a prominent catholic school in year 10 because I put music as no. 1 and god as no.2 in the things in life I enjoy during Religious Ed. Left the place the next year and went to a melbourne based international school which was soooo much better!

 

The Journey Man Project
Posts: 1195
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:46 pm


I mean compared to the other violations of human deceny such as the crusades and all the other such things done in the name of religion my complaints are nothing bwahaha :lol:


I mean, seriously , if the son of god or god himself came down -now-a-days and started a religous group or "cult", he'd be shot first and ask quesitons later because he didn't fit one of the major churches criteria.


Religion is just so hypocritical and so blindly followed it is not funny. It's just realy really sad.
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