Things I hate about psytrance parties - #765: "Diversity"

General Discussion about the PsyTrance scene, way of life, etc.
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kayhat
Posts: 774
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:40 am


#765: Doofs attempts of being "Diverse" and lack of originality with acts

...Now I understand that there has to be a certain atmospheric quality, but why are doof promoters so frequently uncreative line-ups? Why does all music have to rest on the back of mainstays?

With this I mean how trance has been apparently crossing dubstep over into their parties, but they only seem to be able to get guys like Spoonbill, Heyoka, Grouch and Opiuo more or less frequently and interstate as their version of dubstep. There's about 101 million dubstep acts out there, why does it always have to be the same ol' shit!

This extends to all manners of other acts as well, you always see the same ol' names floating around all the time.

I know that part of the reason lies in that there's solid posses, but I'm frequently seeing completely unrelated crews booking the same acts time and time again.

Just watch this thread, I think I've put my foot in it again :P
venatrix
Posts: 2795
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:43 pm


kayhat wrote :
#765: Doofs attempts of being "Diverse" and lack of originality with acts

...Now I understand that there has to be a certain atmospheric quality, but why are doof promoters so frequently uncreative line-ups? Why does all music have to rest on the back of mainstays?

With this I mean how trance has been apparently crossing dubstep over into their parties, but they only seem to be able to get guys like Spoonbill, Heyoka, Grouch and Opiuo more or less frequently and interstate as their version of dubstep. There's about 101 million dubstep acts out there, why does it always have to be the same ol' shit!

This extends to all manners of other acts as well, you always see the same ol' names floating around all the time.

I know that part of the reason lies in that there's solid posses, but I'm frequently seeing completely unrelated crews booking the same acts time and time again.

Just watch this thread, I think I've put my foot in it again :P


ummmm I dunno dude, why don't you actually put on a fucking party yourself? you might learn a thing or two :idea:
FRACAS
Posts: 1289
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:16 pm


kayhat wrote :
Just watch this thread, I think I've put my foot in it again :P

Take some advice from this dog ....
Image
Kratonic
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:35 pm


Why do you see the same people playing? . . . . hmmmmm.

:idea:

1. They are actually pretty good.
2. They put themselves out there and play.
3. The kids like them!
4. They aren't jaded fuckers.

PS. I wouldn't really call Spooney dubstep. If we have to try and name it I guess it's a mix of glitchhop and general brokenbeat stuff, but glitchy electronica would probably do it for me. *shrugs*
kayhat
Posts: 774
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:40 am


venatrix wrote :
ummmm I dunno dude, why don't you actually put on a fucking party yourself? you might learn a thing or two :idea:


What makes you think I haven't? That's a bit of an assumption to make, miss academic! 8)

let me see....

Indoor sessions 1 to 5, NNSW earthdance alternative stage, ppl4ppl, superstitious, I can't believe it's not doof, turning point (@liquid), Silver Surfer, 7 inch bonanza, dancemaul, tons & tons of friends birthday parties and other occasions (outdoor and indoor).

Those are the parties I can name off the top of my head right now...

People on my line-ups are original acts (of many different genres) that have continued on to do great things, actually!

Would you like a list of them as well?

Kratonic wrote :
Why do you see the same people playing? . . . . hmmmmm.

:idea:

1. They are actually pretty good.
2. They put themselves out there and play.
3. The kids like them!
4. They aren't jaded fuckers.

PS. I wouldn't really call Spooney dubstep. If we have to try and name it I guess it's a mix of glitchhop and general brokenbeat stuff, but glitchy electronica would probably do it for me. *shrugs*


Well, I wouldn't have minded a bit of recognition that certain acts get the shit promoted out of them, and that there's actually a lot of talent and different kinds of music out there that are never investigated. People automatically assume that because they put on blahblahblah that their party will be a success. This may be true, but is that good nessecerely for music as a whole.

But you did recognise a few things I could have addessed.

1. Some of them are actually pretty poor too. raja Ram? Quite often a lot of people suck that I hear at a lot of trance parties. But that doesn't make me jaded, maybe they just suck.
2. So do a lot of other people who wouldn't mind recognition. New avenues don't get recognised at times. Quite often the people who always clamour for recognition do so because they know they will be recognised anyway. A lot of other just give up trying because of point 4, which I'll discuss in a second
3. Doofs are about children? :? That's nice, but I doubt I would let my children go to a doof without me really. I haven't seen any effort gone into seeing what the kids want, this is your only point that I can't agree with in any shape or form.
4. Jaded Fuckers :P That needs to be looked into a bit more, I think. Do you mean people who have a larger vision of music and they are disappointed in the current scene? Do you mean people who won't play doofs or ask for too much money (or any money?) Do you mean people who don't like most trance? Please define better.

You're right about spoonbill though, he IS glitchy electronica, more glitch hop tempo then dubstep, same with Opiuo. None of the above are REAL dubstep, just the psytrance scenes interpretation as such. Those guys are great, but what about my point before? People will get sick of them if they get played too much anyway.

I don't see rusko or shackleton on any line-ups, and I think they would be hesitant to accept. Shackleton was actually in Australia at the start of the year and no-one got him booked. I think that would be epic, as he has a really outdoor vibe.
Last edited by kayhat on Wed May 12, 2010 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
venatrix
Posts: 2795
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:43 pm


Then you really are way more retarded than I thought, little boy.
kayhat
Posts: 774
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:40 am


venatrix wrote :
Then you really are way more retarded than I thought, little boy.


What the fuck are you on about?

Do you have any idea what you're on about anymore? You need to lay off the hatorade, as its obvious to everyone else that you are insane with hatred and no longer have even the slightest point except that you hate me. :lol:
Last edited by kayhat on Wed May 12, 2010 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
venatrix
Posts: 2795
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:43 pm


kayhat wrote :
What the fuck are you on about?

Do you have any idea what you're on about anymore? You need to lay off the hatorade, as its obvious to everyone else that you are insane with hatred.


Try to not be brain damaged for 5 fucking minutes and see if you can work it out. If not, don't come back!
kayhat
Posts: 774
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:40 am


I'm not really interested in your opinion and you're really quite boring.
venatrix
Posts: 2795
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:43 pm


kayhat wrote :
I'm not really interested in your opinion and you're really quite boring.


Oh snap!
Kratonic
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:35 pm


kayhat wrote :
venatrix wrote :
ummmm I dunno dude, why don't you actually put on a fucking party yourself? you might learn a thing or two :idea:


What makes you think I haven't? That's a bit of an assumption to make, miss academic! 8)

let me see....

Indoor sessions 1 to 5, NNSW earthdance alternative stage, ppl4ppl, superstitious, I can't believe it's not doof, turning point (@liquid), Silver Surfer, 7 inch bonanza, dancemaul, tons & tons of friends birthday parties and other occasions (outdoor and indoor).

Those are the parties I can name off the top of my head right now...

People on my line-ups are original acts (of many different genres) that have continued on to do great things, actually!

Would you like a list of them as well?

Kratonic wrote :
Why do you see the same people playing? . . . . hmmmmm.

:idea:

1. They are actually pretty good.
2. They put themselves out there and play.
3. The kids like them!
4. They aren't jaded fuckers.

PS. I wouldn't really call Spooney dubstep. If we have to try and name it I guess it's a mix of glitchhop and general brokenbeat stuff, but glitchy electronica would probably do it for me. *shrugs*


Well, I wouldn't have minded a bit of recognition that certain acts get the shit promoted out of them, and that there's actually a lot of talent and different kinds of music out there that are never investigated. People automatically assume that because they put on blahblahblah that their party will be a success. This may be true, but is that good nessecerely for music as a whole.

But you did recognise a few things I could have addessed.

1. Some of them are actually pretty poor too. raja Ram? Quite often a lot of people suck that I hear at a lot of trance parties. But that doesn't make me jaded, maybe they just suck.
2. So do a lot of other people who wouldn't mind recognition. New avenues don't get recognised at times. Quite often the people who always clamour for recognition do so because they know they will be recognised anyway. A lot of other just give up trying because of point 4, which I'll discuss in a second
3. Doofs are about children? :? That's nice, but I doubt I would let my children go to a doof without me really. I haven't seen any effort gone into seeing what the kids want, this is your only point that I can't agree with in any shape or form.
4. Jaded Fuckers :P That needs to be looked into a bit more, I think. Do you mean people who have a larger vision of music and they are disappointed in the current scene? Do you mean people who won't play doofs or ask for too much money (or any money?) Do you mean people who don't like most trance? Please define better.

You're right about spoonbill though, he IS glitchy electronica, more glitch hop tempo then dubstep, same with Opiuo. None of the above are REAL dubstep, just the psytrance scenes interpretation as such. Those guys are great, but what about my point before? People will get sick of them if they get played too much anyway.

I don't see rusko or shackleton on any line-ups, and I think they would be hesitant to accept. Shackleton was actually in Australia at the start of the year and no-one got him booked. I think that would be epic, as he has a really outdoor vibe.


Okey dokes, I'll run through what I meant in a bit more detail.

1 and 2. These two actually go together to some extent. People who are reasonable who do make themselves available are not that common. You used Raja Ram as an example. He does not play very often really. And I agree he is not that great musically. BUT, he is a whole lot of fun to be around. I don't care how crap his mixing is, I had fun watching the last set I saw him play. I also see plenty of guys who I think play average trance and produce average parties who just keep going. The point is that they are tenacious and just keep at it. Good for them! Persistence pays off in everything. Some people do have chips on their shoulders the size of major forests and don't seen to understand that this stops them getting gigs.

My personal experience is that you can actually get sets quite easily at reasonably large events with relatively modest talents if you contribute to the scene to the best of your ability. I manage stages, lend my gear, pick up rubbish, teach what I can, learn what I can, and am flattered by the sets I get offered.

3. I'm just going to assume you're not taking the piss out of me here and take you seriously. The kids as far as I am concerned is anyone under 35. They like the people who are playing regularly out there otherwise they would not be. It's as simple as that.

4. Jaded Fuckers. Every doof is circled by chin strokers who have heard it before, seen it before and are not impressed and think it's about time someone new and different got a set. Sound familiar? But, you know what? The kids are happy and having a good time. I try hard to be a kid far more than a chin stroker. Sometimes I fail and need to be slapped.


I don't think it's as bad as you make out. But, that's just the way I see it.
kayhat
Posts: 774
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:40 am


yeah, thanks mate, I really appreciate someone taking this thread seriously as subject matter.

You know I don't say these things to troll, I actually have spent time considering this stuff over the years, and what better place to share these matters then on a trance forum? :lol:

Kratonic wrote :
1 and 2. These two actually go together to some extent. People who are reasonable who do make themselves available are not that common. You used Raja Ram as an example. He does not play very often really. And I agree he is not that great musically. BUT, he is a whole lot of fun to be around. I don't care how crap his mixing is, I had fun watching the last set I saw him play. I also see plenty of guys who I think play average trance and produce average parties who just keep going. The point is that they are tenacious and just keep at it. Good for them! Persistence pays off in everything. Some people do have chips on their shoulders the size of major forests and don't seen to understand that this stops them getting gigs.

My personal experience is that you can actually get sets quite easily at reasonably large events with relatively modest talents if you contribute to the scene to the best of your ability. I manage stages, lend my gear, pick up rubbish, teach what I can, learn what I can, and am flattered by the sets I get offered.


Well, I suppose people who make themselves available all the time are just living to party, play tunes and be part of it all, really. They're needed, but I kinda disagree that we have outdoor parties every weekend myself, it's a real waste on resources (environmental, financial, etc) and we should conserve our strength and put some thought into real different treats for the people. Real treats.

OK, Raja ram IS a bit of an entertainer, and I suppose I didn't really think too much about that aspect. I suppose that there's high quality you can have in mixing, tunes and entertainment as seperate catagories. And then there's getting available acts who are cheap, this breaks it all up a little.

I don't agree "good on" people who persistantly pester and get gigs just because they tried, there's heaps of people who are waiting for a go that should get contacted.

Responsibility and contactability/avavailability is a good point to make, especially in regards to outdoor events. It's hard to get out there all the time just to play some tunes. personally, that's why I just don't try to play outdoors anymore, I know there's many factors that keep me away from outdoors parties.

I think it's important to give new people a go all the time, it's just playing tunes, isn't it?

Kratonic wrote :
3. I'm just going to assume you're not taking the piss out of me here and take you seriously. The kids as far as I am concerned is anyone under 35. They like the people who are playing regularly out there otherwise they would not be. It's as simple as that.


Fair enough. You're fairly old :P Sorry :P I have to question the whole name act thing though, it takes away from part of the magic and turns it into something else that I didn't start doofing for. The best parties I've been to have had line-ups that I haven't an idea who they were.

Take the piss, who me? Nevvvaaaar! :P

Kratonic wrote :
4. Jaded Fuckers. Every doof is circled by chin strokers who have heard it before, seen it before and are not impressed and think it's about time someone new and different got a set. Sound familiar? But, you know what? The kids are happy and having a good time. I try hard to be a kid far more than a chin stroker. Sometimes I fail and need to be slapped.


OK, context :) Chin strokers suck. :P I find myself doing it too, so I grab another drink so I can go act the twit and get my head out of my ass and then fall ass over tit on the floor to some crap music I don't know what I'm doing wasting the body motion to. If I'm stroking my chin usually though, it means I hate the tunes or they're not dancable.

I generally think that you shouldn't really be going to parties if you're going to do that all the time. Well, that's why I stopped going to doofs. Because I'm a "chin-stroker" and damn proud of it. It means I hold a lot of value to what I like to listen to and I observe a lot of things. Chin strokers are highly critical of the flow of a party and what direction everythings headed in. Nothing wrong with that.

Kratonic wrote :
I don't think it's as bad as you make out. But, that's just the way I see it.


It's probably not that bad, but it's been plauging my brain for a long time now as to why some guys play all the time when they're not that great, and why can't things be a bit more original with 100% fresh line-ups by the same crew? Share the wealth!
keirrajade
Posts: 443
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:30 pm


FRACAS wrote :
kayhat wrote :
Just watch this thread, I think I've put my foot in it again :P

Take some advice from this dog ....
Image

hahaha!!! maddest pic
kayhat
Posts: 774
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:40 am


Yeah, it's pretty amazing that there's a dog who can actually do that.

You don't think the photo might have been doctored, do you?
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